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Ak-Sar-Ben Itself Merits Praise Along With King Dick And Queen Suzanne - 10-14-10

Come Election Day, White And Terry Can’t Duck Party Labels Any Longer - 10-07-10

Today, Second-Guessing Other Sports Commentators But Some Thoughts On Current Political Issues, Too - 09-30-10

Gates Gives Somber Non-Political Appraisals Of Iraq, Afghanistan - 09-23-10

At Last, A Prominent Moderate Muslim Speaks Out Against Muslim Terrorists - 09-16-10

Today, It’s All About College Football With Some “As I See It” Commentary - 09-09-10

Danes’ Sensible Approach To Immigration Won’t, Unfortunately, Fly In The U.S.A. - 09-02-10

Mosque Controversy Isn’t About Legal Rights; It’s About Moral Use Of Those Rights - 08-26-10

Time To Answer The Obvious Question: What Chance For Success In Afghanistan? - 08-19-10

Two-Paragraph News Story Offers Scary Prospect For World’s Future - 08-12-10

Outdated Constitutional Language Adds To Today’s Illegal Immigration Mess - 08-05-10

Not Wall Street But Democratic Policy Caused Mortgage Market Crash - 07-29-10

Windfarm Promoters Need More Facts, Less Rhetoric - 07-22-10

Nebraska Democrats’ ‘Find A Candidate’ Problem Began Long Months (Years?) Ago - 07-15-10

When The Subject Is Disasters,Obama Needs A History Lesson - 07-08-10

McChrystal’s Firing Spotlights Afghan War And The Slim Chance Of U.S. Victory There - 07-01-10

Advice For An Egocentric President: “I, I, I” Suggests One-Man Team - 06-24-10

Texas Decision Good For Big 12 But Even Better For The Longhorns - 06-17-10

Europe Is Sobering Up From 'Welfare' Binge; Obama-Led U.S. Moving Toward Similar Crises? - 06-10-10

A New Issue: Does ‘Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell’ Make Military Service Easier For Gays? - 06-03-10

Do State Officials Really Understand The Challenges Faced By Omaha Schools? - 05-27-10

Democrats Continue Cheap Shot Campaign Against Republican Congressman Lee Terry - 05-20-10

Cartoonist Koterba Says It Clearly: Don’t Put All The Blame On Schools - 05-13-10

Citizenship For Immigrants Is Inevitable But Start By Closing The Border - 05-06-10

Punish Wall Streeters If They Deserve It But Liberal Dems Spawned The Mortgage Mess - 04-29-10

Did Legislature, Speaker Mike Flood Deserve All Those Kind Words? - 04-22-10

Tiger Sulks His Way Through Masters— Is Obama Gambling On The Nuclear Issue? Rogue States And Terrorists Won’t Sign Up - 04-15-10

Did Obama/Pelosi ‘Sausage Factory’ Produce A Debt-Increasing Unpopular Health Plan? - 04-08-10

The Stories Behind Some Disturbing Headlines And Some Advice For Avoiding National Bankruptcy - 04-01-10

Four-Vote House Margin Makes Americans Swallow Trillion-Dollar Pill They Don't Want - 03-25-10

Insurance Pays 96% Of Family’s Cost For Seven Years Of ‘End Of Life’ Treatment - 03-18-10

President Angry Replaces President Cool; ‘ObamaCare’s’ Chances Helped Or Hurt? - 03-11-10

Americans To Get ‘ObamaCare’ Even If They Don’t Want It? - 03-04-10

Despite The Headlines, There’s Progress In Curbing Violence In North Omaha - 02-25-10

Corporate Expenditures Bad For Politics Except When They Benefit Liberal Candidates? - 02-18-10

Wind Energy Industry Faced Disaster; V.A. Hospital Not Personal Obama Choice - 02-11-10

Some Remarkable Legislative Comments And Some Questionable Media Performance - 02-04-10

When The Subject Is Nebraska Wind Energy, ‘Green’ Is The Color Of Money - 01-28-10

The “Teddy Kennedy Seat” Lesson Might Benefit Both Democrats and Republicans - 01-21-10

Some Legislative Issues—Like Gambling—Deserve Quick Death But Water Issues Deserve Careful Attention - 01-14-10

Today: ‘Big Daddy’ Government Wrong Again, And How Justified Is Cornhusker Title Talk? - 01-07-10

Dan Neary Worthy Of The Honor--
Today Some Upbeat Comments But "Obama Care" Debate Demands Attention
- 12-30-09

Even Without That Health Bill Vote, Another Term For Nelson Was Questionable - 12-23-09

Let’s Talk Football And Why Nebraska’s Suh Deserved The Heisman - 12-17-09

Image of Immigrants Would Be Helped By Less Cinco de Mayo, More 4th of July - 12-10-09

Image Of Islam Is Badly Damaged By ‘God-Approved’ Slaughter Of Non-Muslims - 12-03-09

Close Call For NU Research, Reputation; Thanksgiving Reminder: Count Your Blessings - 11-25-09

NU’s Reputation And Research Role Are Both At Stake When Regents Vote - 11-19-09

Obama’s ‘Yes We Can’
Changing To ‘Maybe We Can’t’?
- 11-12-09

Review The History Before Renaming A Street; Memories Of Sarah, Our Sweet Senior Dog - 11-05-09

“Socioeconomic Diversity” More Important Then Academic Achievement In “Learning Community”? - 10-29-09

A Visiting Sports Columnist Agrees: ‘There Is No Place Like Nebraska’ - 10-22-09

Might Obama Wish He Had A Chance To Say ‘No, Thanks’ To Early Nobel Prize? - 10-15-09

Don’t Overlook The Variety Of Aid Which Goes To ‘Poverty Level’ Families - 10-08-09

Smorgasbord Today: From UN’s “Nutcake Day” To Obama Performance Here And Abroad - 10-01-09

Must Defense Continue To Cover For Huskers’ Anemic Red Zone Offense? - 09-24-09

'Energizer Bunny' President Continues To Add Proposals For Reform - 09-17-09

Today, Variety: Football, Golf And Why No President Should Televise Himself Into The Nation’s Classrooms - 09-10-09

Massachusetts Gave Kennedy Significant Second Chances - 09-03-09

Obama’s Problem Not Just With GOP
But With A Great Many Americans
- 08-27-09

Tiger Could Use Sportsmanship Lesson—And Less Coverage From Fawning Media - 08-20-09

Gallup ‘Competitive’ Label, If Accurate Long Term, Is Good News Not Only For Nebraska Democrats - 08-13-09

Democrats Go All-Out Negative:
Trash Private Insurance Industry
- 08-06-09

Journalistic Watchdogs Turned Lapdogs When Obama Called That ‘News Conference’ - 07-30-09

Look Back, Mr. President: Opposition Is Catching Up - 07-23-09

Dem Lynch Mob Might Hang President’s Hopes - 07-16-09

Dems Start Oust-Terry Effort In The Political Gutter - 07-09-09

Despite Liberal Media's Views, Nation Better Served By Viable GOP - 07-02-09

A Varied Menu For You To Consider - 06-25-09

Freshman President Learning Some Political Realities? - 06-18-09

Voices Of Reason Raised Too Late To Slow Rush To Wind Power? - 06-11-09

Public Will Be Watching Prosecution Of Three Teen-Age Creatures - 06-04-09

Wealthiest Paying Less, In Taxes?
It’s Simply Not True
- 05-28-09

Notre Dame And Obama
Offer A Splendid Lesson
- 05-21-09

Special-Interest Liberals
Shouldn’t Badger Obama
- 05-14-09

A Surprising Source: Obama
Cites Positive Results of Iraq War
- 05-07-09

Media Transfer Their Love
From Candidate to President
- 04-30-09

Suttle Campaign Subtly Two-Faced? Or ‘Just Politics’? Voters Will Decide - 04-23-09

If America Is "At War
With Islam," It's Self-Defense
- 04-16-09

Seven Iowans Change Marriage
Tradition For 3 Million Others
- 04-09-09

Will Liberal Democrats Continue
Escaping The Verdict Of History?
- 04-02-09

Multi-Focused President
Upsets Even Liberals
- 03-26-09

Richard Nixon—Appropriate To Recall The Good As Well As The Dark Side - 03-19-09

Not Reducing Mortgage Costs; We’re Simply ‘Modifying’ Them - 03-12-09

Fair Warning From NY Times: Obama’s “Breathtaking Plans” Would “Transform American Society” - 03-05-09

A Look At Academy Awards Nastiness, But First A Plug For My Book, “Life With Marian” - 02-26-09

Let’s Not Move Slot Machine Cancer From Iowa Casinos To Nebraska Race Tracks - 02-19-09

Whiteclay Is Wrong Target;
Aim At Alcoholism Problem
- 02-12-09

For The Best “Stimulus” Formula:
Put Economic Recovery First;
“Remaking USA” Can Wait
- 02-05-09

Journalistic Hounds Are Still
In Full Pursuit Of Bush
- 01-29-09

‘First Black President’ Celebration
Shouldn’t Further Distract Us
From Job We And Obama Face
- 01-22-09

‘Adults In Wonderland’
Need To Get Real
- 01-15-09

Advice For Husker Fans:
Rejoice—But Be Realistic
- 01-08-09

Kennedy Dynasty History
Includes Shameful Chapters
- 12-31-08

Today Some Merry Christmas Thoughts But A Few Political Barbs, Too - 12-24-08

This Time It’s Indians
Who Break The Treaty
- 12-18-08

Me? A Grumpy Old Man?
One Reader Thinks So
- 12-11-08

Obama Steers A Moderate Course
But Congressional Democrats Veer Left
- 12-04-08

Too Many "Non-Blessings"
This Thanksgiving Week
- 11-26-08

Let’s Hear More About
The Principal ‘Crisis’ Victims
- 11-20-08

Color-Blind Issues Voting
Showed No Turn To The Left
- 11-13-08

Election Made History
But Big Questions Remain
- 11-06-08

Today, A Choice of Topics:
Politics Or Football—Or Both
- 10-30-08

Splitting Electoral Votes Good Idea? Then Why Do 48 States Reject It? - 10-23-08

Dems Take 11th Hour Low Road
In 2nd Congressional District Race
- 10-16-08

Another Government “Welfare Program,” Bargain Mortgages, Caused The Crisis - 10-09-08

Words Can Lose Their Meaning
When A Government Program Is Involved
- 10-02-08

—Have We Learned This Lesson?— Crisis Results When Individuals, Encouraged By Financial Institutions, Try To Live Beyond Their Means - 9-25-08

Bonds To Build Four-Lane Highways?
Where Would The Money Come From?
- 9-18-08

Today, a Large Load of Political
Commentary After a Brief Plug For
My Book, ‘Life With Marian’
- 9-17-08

Major News Media Look Bad
In Non-Coverage of
Edwards’ Sex Affair Story
- 9-11-08

Disadvantaged Students Can Be
Helped Without Discriminatory ‘Affirmative Action’
- 9-04-08

My Favorite Olympic Champion?
It Wasn’t Michael Phelps
- 8-28-08

Will Chinese Get Away With
'Out Air Is Clean' Scam?
- 8-21-08

Windmills, Solar Won't Do It;
Time To Get Real On Energy
- 8-07-08

I Doubt That God or Jesus
Have Heavenly Money on Either Team
- 8-07-08

‘Pop Star’ Obama Lacks Experience,
McCain Lacks Clear Campaign Strategy
- 7-31-08

Top Athletes Should
Know When to Quit?
- 7-24-08

Would Odor of Politics
Taint Fire Chief Choice?
- 7-17-08

Will Hospitality, Qwest Center
Lure Swim Trials Back to Omaha?
- 7-09-08

Omaha Stars Again
On National TV Stage
- 7-02-08

Omaha's CWS Reputation
Gets New "Rave Reviews"
- 6-25-08

S.D. Vote Could Lead
To National Abortion Battle
- 6-18-08

Don’t Let Niobrara Go The Way
Of The Republican And The Platte
- 6-11-08

Voters Didn’t Impose Term Limits
To Rid Legislature of Chambers
- 6-04-08

“It’s Our Turn” Pitch Might
Not End With Hillary Defeat
- 5-28-08

Prime Nebraska Political
Battleground This Year:
2nd Congressional District
- 5-21-08

The 'Browning' of America:
How Far Will It Go?
- 5-14-08

Obama ‘Stumbling’ To Victory? - 5-08-08

"Does Homebuyer Bailout
Reward the Irresponsible?"
- 4-30-08

"Was McCain, Not Clinton,
The Real Winner in Pennsylvania?"
- 4-25-08

"Cleaner Skies Advice For Gore:
Pressure On China, More Nuke
Power If Jane Fonda Will Allow It"
- 4-16-08

"Why The Big Fuss Over
Tiny Gasoline Cost Increase?"
- 4-09-08

"Quietly, Nebraska Yields
All-Public-Power Status"
-  4-02-08

"Obama’s ‘Historic’ Speech Left
Big Questions Unanswered "
-  3-25-08

"Overweight Moore Produces
“Sicko,” Finds An Ally In Creighton Doctor"
-  3-19-08

"Bush Sings, Praises Press
At Annual Gridiron Dinner"
-  3-12-08

"Obama Would Be Least
Formidable Opponent For McCain"
-  3-7-08

"‘Charisma’ Not Always a Good Thing" -  2-27-08

"Could Citizen ‘Packing Iron’
Have Stopped Von Maur Killings?"
-  2-20-08

"Obama’s Style Without Substance
Exciting, But Is It Presidential?"
-  2-13-08

"Barack Obama and John McCain:
A Major Contrast in Egos? "
-  2-07-08

"‘First Black President’
Emphasis Wouldn’t Help Obama"
-  1-30-08

"Kimball Lauritzen: Think of Her
As Joyous on Some New Dawn"
-  1-23-08

"What 'Tough' Election Contest
Was Ben Nelson Talking About?"
- 1-16-08

"Overhyped New Hampshire
Offsets Overhyped Iowa"
- 1-10-08

"Coach Bo Now Well Welcomed;
Time to Start Thinking of NU Wins"
- 1-2-08

"Words of Jews Most Moving
To Me This Christmas Season"
- 12-25-07

"AT LAST: TALK OF PREVENTION
JOINS MOURNING OVER KILLINGS"
- 12-19-07

"Killer Is Getting Just What He Wanted;
Let's Add Anger and
Action to Our Sorrow"
- 12-12-07

"Bo Brings Emotional Fire to NU Job;
Scary News: Huckabee Gain in Iowa"
- 12-05-07

"Callahan Outclasses Loudmouth Critics;
Tom Osborne Treated Him Fairly"
- 11-28-07

"A Thought for Thanksgiving Day:
Tell Them You Love Them"
- 11-21-07

"Callahan Critics: Is Loss to CU
The Only Way to Satisfy Them?"
- 11-16-07

"Crybaby Fans, Sports Commentators
Distracting Players From Their Job?"
- 11-09-07

"Did Bob Kerrey’s Decision Avoid
the Likelihood of Defeat?"
- 11-02-07

"Nosy Congress Makes
Three Bad Calls"
- 10-26-07

"Is This The Way to Run UNL´s
Athletic Program?"
- 10-19-07

"Right Decision Could
Help Both Fair, UNL"
- 10-12-07

"Stop Trying To Make God A Republican" - 10-6-07

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As I See It
Harold W. Andersen is a retired Publisher and Chief Executive Officer of the Omaha World-Herald Company. Full biography.

A number of you have told me that you don’t look forward to reading the column on your computer screen. That’s not necessary if you have a printer. Print out the column and take it with you to the breakfast table or wherever else you choose to read printed material. (You can also call up past columns in case you missed them.)

And, if you haven’t already done so, let us know your e-mail address so that we can send you a weekly reminder when a new column is available.

Another Government “Welfare Program,”
Bargain Mortgages, Caused The Crisis

October 9, 2008

Predictably and irresponsibly, the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., opened hearings on the cause of the current economic crisis by focusing on the designated villain, “Wall Street.”

Less predictably, but not surprisingly, in view of Waxman’s habit of playing to the news media gallery, the committee chairman, in grilling Lehman Brothers former chief executive, focused on the millions of dollars in bonuses which were paid to Lehman executives just before the investment bank went belly up.

Payment of the bonuses was indeed outrageous, and former Lehman chief executive Richard S. Fuld, Jr. had no credible defense. 

But ironically, one account of Waxman’s biting criticism of payment of pre-bankruptcy bonuses was carried under a headline which read:  “Getting To The Root Of The Meltdown.” 

If the perpetually choleric Waxman and his colleagues on oversight committees in the House and the Senate want to get to the true roots of the “meltdown,” they need to start calling witnesses with names like Bill Clinton, Democratic Representative Barney Frank of New York and Democratic Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut. 

It was on Clinton’s and Frank’s and Dodd’s watches that seeds for the current economic “meltdown” started to grow.  The facts are there, occasionally reported on an inside newspaper page or mentioned by one of those rarities, a conservative news media commentator but overlooked by the politicians and the majority of news media commentators who want to lay all the blame on “Wall Street.” 

Several large Wall Street investment banks did indeed play a role in the economic meltdown.  But those investment banks are now paying a heavy price and were at the end of the line of irresponsible behavior—behavior which goes back for years to the time when bureaucrats and politicians decided to turn home ownership into sort of a government-sponsored welfare program—not exactly like food stamps, of course, but philosophically related to such welfare programs. 

“American Dream” Becomes A Nightmare

The object of the politicians and bureaucrats was to make it possible for low-income Americans, obvious bad credit risks on their own, to realize “the American dream” of owning a home—dreams which in this case became an American nightmare. 

Consider a September 30, 1999 New York Times story, dredged up from The Times own electronic files by one of the relative handful of Americans who seem to know the truth and want to spread it more widely.  That September 30, 1999 story began:

“In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.”

The story reported that government-created Fannie Mae, as the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, “has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people.”

The fact that blame for the mess extends broadly is indicated in this language from the 1999 news report:  “In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called sub-prime borrowers.  These borrowers, whose income, credit rating and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates.”

Although it took almost 10 years for the prophecy to come true, the1999 New York Times story observed:  “In moving, even tentatively into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times.  But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government risk similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s.”

So, as long ago as 1999, there was public notice of concern about the every-American-family-in-a-home-they-own government-subsidized welfare program.

The Bush administration—about which the national media can’t find any reason to say anything at all that is positive—in 2003 made note of the hazard and, in the words of a New York Times report, “today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing and finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a year ago.”

Democrats Said “No” to Regulation

Under the Bush proposal, the news story reported, “a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.”

The proposal immediately ran into opposition from the National Association of Home Builders and Democrats who, in the words of The Times story, “feared that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.”

Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., ranking Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, declared that “these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any financial crisis.”  Congress, needless to say, did not adopt the tighter regulations that Bush proposed.

Rep. Frank is now chairman of the House Financial Services Committee and talking about the need for greater regulation which, he assures us, the Democratic-controlled Congress will provide.

On the Senate side of the sad story of lack of Congressional responsibility, consider the hearings before the Senate Banking Committee in February, 2004.  Senator Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, then ranking Democrat on the committee and now its chairman, addressing the question of whether more regulation of the homeownership welfare program (my description, not his) was necessary, made this astonishing statement:  “…this is one of the great success stories of all time.  And we don’t want to lose sight of that.”

* * *

Debate Wasted Time, Including Mine

Deadline pressure prevents extensive comment on this week’s Obama/McCain debate, but herewith a brief reaction:

To me, about the only new and interesting part of the 90-minute-plus proceedings was the candidates’ agreement that Omaha’s Warren Buffett would be a good choice for Secretary of the Treasury.  Neither candidate indicated he would actually offer the job to Buffett—an offer which, I believe, Buffett would graciously reject.

Otherwise, to my personal taste, I thought the debate was a great waste of time, including mine.  The answers generally reflected viewpoints which have been articulated over and over in the tediously long presidential campaign.  The answers also were usually too long, frequently not really responsive to the question.

Moderator Tom Brokaw, NBC’s senior political commentator, didn’t help matters as he repeatedly injected his own questions into a debate which was supposed to feature questions from the audience.  I tended to agree with one commentator who said that the debate was something of a draw, which was of no help to McCain who is trailing substantially in the polls.

More time was available to try to set the record straight in regard to another nationally televised political debate, this one of special interest to us because it was held in Omaha.

I’m referring, of course, to the debate between Democratic vice presidential candidate Lloyd Bentsen of Texas and Republican Dan Quayle of Indiana at the Omaha Civic Auditorium in 1988.

A news story on the 20th anniversary of that debate told part of the story—the much-publicized part which gave Senator Bentsen credit for a memorable “zinger” in rebuttal to Senator Quayle’s statement--defending himself against charges that he lacked experience—that his experience on Capitol Hill compared favorably with that of the late John Kennedy when Kennedy ran successfully for president in 1960.

Staff members grooming Bentsen for the debate were aware that Quayle had, along his campaign trail, made the comparison between Kennedy and himself in terms of Capitol Hill experience.  Quayle had served eight years in the Senate, as did Kennedy.  Quayle served two terms in the House, Kennedy had served three terms.

Bentsen and his staff saw an opportunity to “zing” Quayle if in the course of the debate, Quayle brought up this factual comparison of Congressional experience.  So it wasn’t an impromptu flash of wit.  It was a carefully calculated zinger—and unfair—when Bentsen famously declared:  “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy.  I knew Jack Kennedy.  Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine.  Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”

A World-Herald account of the debate said this drew gasps from the crowd in the Civic Auditorium.  Quayle retorted, “That was really uncalled for, Senator.”  President Ronald Reagan called it a “cheap shot.”

The “zinger” didn’t help the Dukakis/Bentsen Democratic ticket.  The governor of Massachusetts and the senator from Texas carried only 10 of the 50 states against the George H. W. Bush/Quayle Republican ticket.  The Dukakis/Bentsen ticket lost Bentsen’s home state of Texas by 684,081 votes.  The Bush/Quayle ticket carried Quayle’s home state of Indiana by a 60/40 margin.

* * *

Obama Assures Race Is A Factor

Jottings from a columnist’s notebook:

- - The Obama presidential campaign continues to assure that race is a factor in play when voters go to the polls November 4.  For example: 

The Obama campaign, which has sent 15 paid staff members into Omaha in hope of winning a single electoral vote in the Second Congressional District, has opened a second campaign office in Omaha.  I informed a friend of that fact and gave him one guess as to the location of the second campaign office.

“North Omaha” was his prompt reply.

The reply was, of course, correct.  I hardly need point out that the great majority of Omaha blacks live in North Omaha.

- - Even for The New York Times, the vitriolic Frank Rich, nastiest of The Times stable of liberal columnists, is allowed to go to astonishing extremes in expressing his hatred of John McCain.  For example (there are a lot of other examples which could be cited):

A recent Rich column—The Times gave him his usual half or more of a page of space—included this criticism of McCain’s effort to help resolve the nation’s economic crisis: 

“He may be the first presidential candidate in our history to risk wrecking the country even before being voted into the Oval Office.”

- - I don’t know how it is that Marian’s and my names end up on so many lists of people being solicited for contributions to worthy causes.  I suspect there is some trafficking in mailing lists; i.e., philanthropic groups exchanging donor or prospective donor lists or even selling such lists to others. 

Whatever the case, one of the more surprising solicitations came the other day, asking me to become a “Partner in Mission” for the Washington National Cathedral.  (As I dictate this, a suspicion crossed my mind:  Could I have wound up on the Washington National Cathedral list because I contribute modestly to the Washington-based Smithsonian Institution?)

I declined the partnership offer.

- - If there are any television ads in worse taste than those currently promoting the male sexual stimulant Viagra, I haven’t yet encountered them. 

# # #

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